Curse

Super Igor · Nov 08, 2008, 02:00 PM // 14:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by MegaVolti

I guess you like the Elementalist for its great AoE nuking. Well, don't. In hard mode the Elementalists damage is pathetic.

I lol'd, urrong dude.

payne · Nov 08, 2008, 02:13 PM // 14:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Super Igor

I lol'd, urrong dude.

for heroes - damage is not as good as it should be..

now enemies on the other hand - SF bosses for example = overkill in HM

foe ele in HM damage is imba
h/h or players - not so great due to enemies greatly built up elemental defence

Super Igor · Nov 08, 2008, 02:25 PM // 14:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by payne

for heroes - damage is not as good as it should be..

now enemies on the other hand - SF bosses for example = overkill in HM

foe ele in HM damage is imba
h/h or players - not so great due to enemies greatly built up elemental defence

Still far from pathetic.

Amy Awien · Nov 08, 2008, 03:33 PM // 15:33

Mob AL goes by level, every level adds +3 to AL, +6 levels for instance adds +18 AL and they take 73% of the original damage.

Super Igor · Nov 08, 2008, 09:13 PM // 21:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amy Awien

Mob AL goes by level, every level adds +3 to AL, +6 levels for instance adds +18 AL and they take 73% of the original damage.

73% of total damage dealt say, by searing heat is pretty hot still tbh otherwise I wouldnt've been killing stuff so well with it!

Luminarus · Nov 08, 2008, 11:43 PM // 23:43

The damage is gimped, but its not nothing. However, if you want to do damage in HM armor ignoring is the way to go. I have never seen anything out DPS a mob then echo spiteful spirit. AoE 35ish damage every second (due to HM IAS/HCT etc) is really nice. Unfortunately necros bore me

MegaVolti · Nov 09, 2008, 01:05 AM // 01:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Super Igor

I lol'd, urrong dude.

I lol'd, urrong dude.

Name one class (well, except Monks ...) that does less damage then Elementalists in HM.

Let's see:
All physical classes have a much higher attack speed then Elementalists. DSlash, Moebius Sin, Aura of the Holy Might - all easily beat Elementalists. And there is the Asuran Scan and I Am The Strongest. With them, Rangers and Paragons also beat Elementalists.
Ritualists can deal armor ignoring damage with Spirit Strength and Ghosts (yes, Ghosts ... even they deal more damage then Elementalists!)
Necro and Mesmer are obviously superior (Spiteful Spirit, Visions of Regret).

Elementalist spells simply get absolutely raped by high HM armor. Yes, it's sad. But it's true.

The only way an Elementalist is really effective as damage dealer in HM is with a full tank and with the AoE effect of the Elementalists spells (Searing Flames). And even then Cry of Pain is superior. Or Splinter/Barrage.

That doesn't mean stuff won't die. Yes it will die because even HM isn't THAT difficult and you can run almost any bar, with decent hero support stuff eventually goes down and you beat the mission / vanquish the area. Yes it does work. But it would be easier / faster using other sources of damage then the Elementalist. And, to be honest, it is quite frustrating to cast that 120 damage Liquid Fire, just to see 20 damage pop up over the enemy rangers head.

The best way to play the Elementalist in HM (without a full tank) is to go wards / blind / knockdown support or to use ER to replace a Monk (e.g. ER Infuser, an incredibly effective build that can easily replace 2 Monks on its own - as long as the enchantments don't get stripped).

But for party support, there is really no reason to play the Ranger as Elementalists. Rangers are pretty awesome as party support on their own (and the ER Infuser can only be played by primary Elementalists anyway).

Bottom line: Endgame fulltank nuking can be done by Rangers and Elementalists (Splinter/Barrage, Searing Flames). For most of "normal" HM play, both Ranger and Elementalists are best in a supporting role. Rangers are great with Daze/Interrupt and conditions, Elementalists are also great with conditions and have protecting wards. If he wants to quit his Ranger because he wants to be a backline damage dealer, then Elementalist is simply the wrong profession for him (in hard mode, normal mode damage is fine for Elementalists).
Actually, while of cause being more effective with a fulltank, Splinter/Barrage is still awesome in "normal" HM play - the Ranger actually is a better backline damage dealer there then the Elementalist (in most situations).

Oh and "made E/Mo two weeks ago": I assume you never were in HM with your Elementalist. Trying to do damage there gets really, really frustrating. Especially if you played a Mesmer or Necromancer before - it's so easy with them.

Super Igor · Nov 09, 2008, 12:47 PM // 12:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by MegaVolti

I lol'd, urrong dude.

no u

Quote:

Name one class (well, except Monks ...) that does less damage then Elementalists in HM.

Depends on a build dude but I'd say prim rit. They cant really nuke and cant really deal enough damage directly, necs can bring same utility but use it better with unlimited energy. I know sw ar, but an ele can easily cope casting those and lower spec would be neglected by big aoe damages. SS, yeah its strong, but a rit in melee range...

Quote:

All physical classes have a much higher attack speed then Elementalists.

Well eles arent ment to attack stuff but yeah I agree, sure.

Quote:

DSlash, Moebius Sin, Aura of the Holy Might - all easily beat Elementalists. And there is the Asuran Scan and I Am The Strongest. With them, Rangers and Paragons also beat Elementalists.

Will pass on paragons, totally agree on sins cuz they outdamage anything nowadays. As for buffs, intensity, by ural's hammer, elemental lord, ebon battle standard of honor all can boost elementalist's damage greatly and eles cope really well with bringing that stuff.

Quote:

Ritualists can deal armor ignoring damage with Spirit Strength and Ghosts (yes, Ghosts ... even they deal more damage then Elementalists!)
Necro and Mesmer are obviously superior (Spiteful Spirit, Visions of Regret).

Passing on rits, lolling at spirits, actually eles pwn rits because spirits die fast, cast slow, and are generally slow way to pve. Sw ar, eles can do that, necs can do that, a lot of prof can cope with it beter than a rit prim. SS and VoR yeah can blow stuff up really well but they vary on how the mob behaves, sometimes its good to have some direct damage and imamazed you havent mentioned discord.

Quote:

Elementalist spells simply get absolutely raped by high HM armor. Yes, it's sad. But it's true.

73% damage is not raped, less damage yes, but long way from raped.

The only way an Elementalist is really effective as damage dealer in HM is with a full tank and with the AoE effect of the Elementalists spells (Searing Flames). And even then Cry of Pain is superior. Or Splinter/Barrage.

This statement made me cry, tank 'n' spank is pathetic. Same for SF, good but there are better elites for hm starting from SH to Unsteady ground + eles bring a lot of utlity through earth magic and water magic. Air magic is ossum against destroers and generally blinding stuff may be a good idea on hm. CoP...dk...might be if the full team is based around it but not sure about it alone. Splinter/Barrage...hmm, I'd rather have off-char splinter.

Quote:

That doesn't mean stuff won't die. Yes it will die because even HM isn't THAT difficult and you can run almost any bar, with decent hero support stuff eventually goes down and you beat the mission / vanquish the area. Yes it does work. But it would be easier / faster using other sources of damage then the Elementalist. And, to be honest, it is quite frustrating to cast that 120 damage Liquid Fire, just to see 20 damage pop up over the enemy rangers head.

Stuff was dieing for me, still fun as anything throwing sh into the mobs and start bashing it with db and splinter. XD Elementalists are effective even if they lose some damage on hm, they still can bend their builds to different requrements and bring a lot of utility.

Quote:

The best way to play the Elementalist in HM (without a full tank) is to go wards / blind / knockdown support or to use ER to replace a Monk (e.g. ER Infuser, an incredibly effective build that can easily replace 2 Monks on its own - as long as the enchantments don't get stripped).

In other words eles can provide a lot of utlity, sure, agree.

Quote:

But for party support, there is really no reason to play the Ranger as Elementalists. Rangers are pretty awesome as party support on their own (and the ER Infuser can only be played by primary Elementalists anyway).

True, nobody argues that. Rangers support the party too through interrupts, snares, daze, blind even pets that soak damage!

Quote:

Bottom line: Endgame fulltank nuking can be done by Rangers and Elementalists (Splinter/Barrage, Searing Flames). For most of "normal" HM play, both Ranger and Elementalists are best in a supporting role. Rangers are great with Daze/Interrupt and conditions, Elementalists are also great with conditions and have protecting wards. If he wants to quit his Ranger because he wants to be a backline damage dealer, then Elementalist is simply the wrong profession for him (in hard mode, normal mode damage is fine for Elementalists).

Eles are fine, if he wants to play a caster and nuke stuff with fire spells n stuff, play many different builds, ele might be better, more fun to play for him. On HM damage doesnt die that badly to make an ele totally useless, even if you face mobs that have high armor vs. elements you can run something more supportive with wards, kd, technobabble.

Quote:

Actually, while of cause being more effective with a fulltank, Splinter/Barrage is still awesome in "normal" HM play - the Ranger actually is a better backline damage dealer there then the Elementalist (in most situations).

Dont like splinter on anything physical, I mean on their bar. Get another caster guy like nec or ele cast it on you instead. Besides splinter barrage is good when enemies are cramped, wereas ele can cope with both just fine.

Flashy · Nov 10, 2008, 12:19 PM // 12:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by wind fire and ice

No,just no..it burns my eyes to even look at the idea.

mid level energy,3regen,no primary bonus that has any thing to do with casting...it would be beyond stupid if you did that.
Just play your ele instead of ranger.

all I have to say... give it a try

I remember vD running R/Mo with as job healing/protting... in TA... and I tried it myself and got some glad points with it

but then again

Meteor Shower
Glyph of instant cast (wutever its called)
Oath Shot

and a high energy bow/armor is always fun 2 play, and games are about fun not about other peoples opinions about whatever u want( though I would prolly laugh at you too

)

@ Wind: keep burning ure eyes but some brilliant builds lies in the weirdest corner

Tyla · Nov 10, 2008, 03:54 PM // 15:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flashy

I remember vD running R/Mo with as job healing/protting... in TA... and I tried it myself and got some glad points with it

And?

There are no benefits to running a Ranger primary for it. At all. You can try to prove me wrong if you want, but name at least one benefit.

zelgadissan · Nov 10, 2008, 04:05 PM // 16:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyla

You can try to prove me wrong if you want, but name at least one benefit.

Stronger Dshots, everybody knows it's used for guaranteed set damage.

On topic, don't rangers have enough secondaries to abuse? Leave the ele alone.

360° · Nov 10, 2008, 04:16 PM // 16:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyla

And?

There are no benefits to running a Ranger primary for it. At all. You can try to prove me wrong if you want, but name at least one benefit.

Mend/Healing touch.